Posts by moggy lover

24

Paul's "full gospel" did NOT mention 144,000...

by bebu in

from reflecting on what paul writes in his letters, it is obvious he had never taught anything like the wts doctrines concerning the little flock (144,000) or the slave class, or any other unique jw gospel concept.

yet he was clear that he was preaching the entire gospel everywhere.. i picked out the following verses (you can find more but these are the most obvious) to show that 1) paul said his authority for the gospel he preached was given by god; 2) that he preached the gospel fully; and that he condemned any person or angel who preached a different gospel.

have you ever noticed, then, that though paul clarified the gospel in all of his letters in a variety of ways, the odd doctrines of the jws/wts were never once mentioned by paul?

moggy lover

Ooops... I seem to have put too many noughts in there. Of course its 144000 not 1440000. But you get my drift

Cheers

24

Paul's "full gospel" did NOT mention 144,000...

by bebu in

from reflecting on what paul writes in his letters, it is obvious he had never taught anything like the wts doctrines concerning the little flock (144,000) or the slave class, or any other unique jw gospel concept.

yet he was clear that he was preaching the entire gospel everywhere.. i picked out the following verses (you can find more but these are the most obvious) to show that 1) paul said his authority for the gospel he preached was given by god; 2) that he preached the gospel fully; and that he condemned any person or angel who preached a different gospel.

have you ever noticed, then, that though paul clarified the gospel in all of his letters in a variety of ways, the odd doctrines of the jws/wts were never once mentioned by paul?

moggy lover

Yeah, Blondie, as when "symbolic" 12000 from "symbolic" tribes of "symbolic" of "Israel" mysteriously makes up a literal 1440000 "spiritual" Israelites.

Erm... now lets see.... thats symbolic 12000, plus symbolic 12000, plus symbolic 12000 plus symbolic 12000 plus symbolic 12000 plus symbolic 12000 plus symbolic 12000 plus symbolic 12000 plus symbolic 12000 plus symbolic 12000 plus symbolic 12000 plus symbolic 12000............ makes... oh yeah I get it...... a literal 1440000 !!!

If I told my boss that I worked 12000 symbolic hours twelve times over and that she now owes me for 144000 literal hours she would give me a swift kick up the arse, and merrily send me on my way.

However.... coming to think of it..... I wonder if the WTS would pay up?

Cheers.

36

"These also I must bring..."John 10:16

by AuldSoul in

an invitation to any jws, ex-jws, faders, lurkers or readers: please wreck this if you can.

i trying to tackle a foundation doctrine of jws as simply as i possibly can.

if anyone has a way to further simplify this, please offer suggestions.. john 10:16"and i have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also i must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.".

moggy lover

One point regarding this scripture which clean bowled me for a duck when I was a WT follower [to use a cricket analogy, yes, the game they play in heaven] was when someone at the door pointed out the significance of the Jesus' use of the PRESENT tense.

Note that He said: "I have other sheep" not "I will have other sheep" [ie at some time in the future sayncirca 1935 AD] This then means that whoever these sheep were - they were in existence back there in the first century !!

Were the Gentiles in existence back then? You bet! Cornelius would be stomping around as a Roman centurion would, but knowing somewhere, somehow, that there was a higher calling.

Cheers

26

Society demands submission as a 'sacred responsibility'

by yaddayadda in

the society demands submission to them as equal to submission to christ.

nov 1, 2006 watchtower, page 22 of the first study article "do you share jehovah's view of sacred things?

" para 7:

moggy lover

I am constantly being amazed at the disingenuous way the WTS props up its dogmatism before its R&F membership. Surely using Heb 13:17 to apply to the ''Other sheep'' is wrenching the verse out of the very context for which it was intended.

It is true that the writer of Hebrews exhorted his readers, as believers in Jesus Christ, to submit to their local leaders. But what the WTS ignores is the very legitimate question of why. Why indeed are "we" to "submit" and "obey" our leaders? Because our obedience is predicated on a certain eventuality.

In vs 14 tells the writer tells "us" that WE have a "lasting city" which is not here but we are seeking the city which is to come. [Which the WTS says is the "heavenly Jerusalem" and which is limited to the ''anointed''] What the WTS in effect is saying is that the act of obedience is required, but the reward is not !!

I recall Ray Franz in his book "in Search of Christian Freedom" [pgs 181-185] saying that the members of the GB have a real antipathy to reading and studying the Bible [especially the NT] in its context, because it may "stumble" the R&F. It is so much easier to stitch seperate scriptures together and to make them mean whatever the WTS wants it to mean.

In this respect, in order to bolster its more pompous, ritualized statements, the WTS cultivates, among its R&F membership, a veneer of religious authoritarianism, overlaid with a susve, almost unctious gloss of dogmatism. It is this authoritarian system with its dictatorial centralism and noxious bigotries which provides the basis for its interpretation of scripture.

For the WT interpretation of the Bible to be sucessful it must have a pliant, submissive following who collectively agree to abdicate all resonsible thinking to the WT leadership. It is sad to see so many actually being browbeaten, by the constant refrain that the WTS is God's exclusive channel, into doing this.

Cheers

90

The Divine Error of the Ages. Russell Chart update.

by Wasanelder Once in

.

couldn't resist.. w.once.

moggy lover

Sheer genius.

Hozabout: "Divine" Error of the Ages

Cheers

13

What is Rom 15: 20,21 getting at?

by yaddayadda in

romans 15: 20 & 21 "in this way, indeed, i made it my aim not to declare the good news where christ had already been named, in order that i might not be building on another man's foundation; but, just as it is written: "those to whom no announcement has been made about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand.

could this be used to show that jw's are wrong to condemn all other christians as false, because as long as these other christians have accepted christ and have him as their foundation, does it really matter if some of their doctrines are not quite right?

i think this scripture shows that jw's are wrong to focus so much on the faults of other christian religions.

moggy lover

I am sure the text you mentioned could be referring to other Christians who had heard the "name" being named. It is quite evident that Paul was concerned with preaching a person - rather than a body ofdoctrine imposed on believers by a secretive centralized imperium sitting in Jerusalem. I feel that because of this, Paul saw himself as a true pioneer [not a WT one, I hasten to add] opening up virgin territory to the Gospel of God's grace in Jesus Christ.

Although why Paul included a quote from the second half of Isa 52:15, in his discourse, I do not know.

Oddly enough, when I scrolled through the WT CD Rom, I found no reference to Ro 15:20,21. So, either the GB hav'nt a clue what it means, or they have not as yet confected some WT approved brew that could be given to the R&F to swallow.

Cheers

25

Does anyone now celebrate...

by Hannah in

does anyone who was raised a jw and is now df'd of da'd celebrate all the holidays?

i do, and for the first time in my entire life i'm actually having a blast and so are my children.

at least my youngest child doesn't have to suffer the segregation all jw children surrender to due to the freakin' mind controlling gb and all there so called "god channeled" rules..

moggy lover

Yes, I do as well, especially Christmas. Because it is a family oriented celebration I now feel so much closer to them than before. Seeing all of us together, along with the grand nieces and nephews and all the crazy antics we get into makes it seem so..... well....human.

Cheers

17

Just read today about a sect in England called "Lord's Witnesses".....

by rocky220 in

sounds familiar...?.

link does not work, go to googles, enter lord's witnesses and find the website with the name speroforum.com hope that works, this sect sounds crazier than .

the borg.......rocky220.

moggy lover

"Living Waters" group??? Who in heck are they? I have heard of the "Lord's Witnesses" but this one is a new one on me. Anyone have any info? Are they US based or UK? Are they a breakaway from the Lord's witnesses? If so they they woud be a breakaway from a breakaway.

Please Lord, give us a break

Cheers

16

Shining as Illuminators in The World--pdf!

by Atlantis in

the pdf file for "shining as illuminators in the world" also includes the [pages for notes] just as they appear in this 253 page book.

here are two hosting sites you can use to download the book.

the first link below will show seconds counting down under the words: [ download description: education]near the bottom of the page and the download link will appear in blue numbers and letters.

moggy lover

Great work as usual, Big A. I remember this book back in the late post-' 75 years.We were so far into the last days that the pioneers had to be given this special education. Even we elders were not allowed a look at this book !! Two members of my congregation later went to Gilead then served in Cameroon, West Africa, only to leave the WTS in the 90s.

Thanks a lot for this timely gift in due season. May your tribe increase.

Ta, mate

7

Publisher statistics

by Shepherd Book in

every year for at least the last half-century, the society has published statistics on the activity of jws around the world.

i am hoping someone here can provide me with that information, or can direct me as to where it can be found.

specifically, i am looking for usa-specific data: usa population (the way watchtower counts it - sans alaska and hawaii), number of publishers in the usa and number baptized in the usa.

moggy lover

Hang on for just a couple of months. The Jan 1 issue of each WT gives you the latest census report of the WT "population" and their activity. Someone may be able to scan it for you. I am interested in the latest statistics myself.

Cheers